Episode 6: From Stress to Success: Navigating Picky Eating with Special Guest Rebecca Tilden

Kayla: Hey everybody. So today my guest is Rebecca Tilden. Hey Rebecca, hey Kaba. So before we get started, let me introduce you. Rebecca is a registered dietitian and certified eating disorder specialist practicing out of Dallas, texas. Rebecca received her master’s degree from UT Southwestern in Dallas before going on to work with eating disorder patients in all levels of care. Rebecca currently serves patients at Dallas Nutritional Counseling, where she specializes in eating in disorder eating, picky eating and feeding families. I am so excited to have you on, rebecca, because picky eating is something that my family does struggle with. But before we get started, I wanted to ask you what is your definition of balance?

Rebecca: Yeah, it’s such a great question, and I think it’s one that I’ve struggled with often on throughout my life. I think when I think about balance, it’s thinking about how can I align with my values in a realistic way, because I think so often I’ve found myself trying just to align with my values but it ends up not being realistic and not something that I can really manage. So really finding that in between, I think, would be where I would define balance.

Kayla: Oh yeah, and I know before we hit the record button you had mentioned that you became a mom two years ago. Do you feel like your definition of balance has changed since becoming a mom? Absolutely.

Rebecca: Yeah, I think with that change and I actually have a second one coming in November oh, my gosh congratulations.

Kayla: Thank you, that’s exciting yeah.

Rebecca: Another big adjustment. I think the realistic piece was a big part that came in when I had my first kid, my daughter, because I initially was trying to do a lot of the same things that I did prior to having her, in the same way, same frequency and, as I’m sure you know, that just doesn’t work. So I had to do a lot of, you know, readjusting my expectations for myself and figuring out, okay, what’s actually realistic here.

Kayla: Yeah, yeah. And especially because most of the time, while we’re pregnant, you’re thinking about all of the ways, especially with your first kid, right? You’re thinking about all the ways that you believe that your life is going to be and how you’re going to be able to do all these schedules and fit things in and just do it. But until you’re in that moment, you really don’t know how it’s all going to play out, because it’s not just you, it’s also this new baby, this new child, who has their own personality, which I don’t think we usually think about.

Rebecca: Yeah, right, and it’s. Even if you’re doing everything that’s recommended, everything by the book, it’s still not always going to turn out how you think it is.

Kayla: Oh yeah, yeah. In college I actually babysat a set of twins and the mom had the babies on such a strict schedule not strict in a bad way, but just what worked for her and so I went into my own thinking of how things were going to go as, oh, I’ll be able to have a schedule like she did, it’s going to be fine. And wow, I was very mistaken. My child, like first, he did not want anything to do with schedules.

So that was a huge shock for me, for sure. Yeah, I bet, yeah. And so again, I’m really excited to talk about topics around like picky eating and feeding your family, because that’s definitely something that I struggle with in terms of my oldest. So I have three kids, if I hadn’t mentioned before. The oldest is eight, the middle is three, shall be four in February and then the youngest he’s one and will be two in January. So the oldest is very picky. I feel like he was what’s it called Like he. I feel like he ate pretty well. Before he turned one, he didn’t seem to be picky and then it’s like something switched where I think it’s textures and just he just will not try stuff. So for moms who struggle with getting their kids to try new things or just eat different foods in general, what would you say would be helpful? Or have you seen things like this before? Absolutely.

Rebecca: Oh my gosh, all the time I get a lot of parents that come to me with similar situations and there’s always varying degrees of how picky each is, and sometimes it’s all the kids, sometimes just one, and it’s. It’s a really hard thing to approach because I think there is a lot of just stigma out there around picky eating and there’s a lot of thought that if you do XYZ then you’ll be able to fully prevent picky eating and it’s just not the case and oh yeah.

Kayla: Like I was one of the proponents where I thought, well, I did baby Lent weaning, he should not be a picky eater, right, because I did this Like they said right, and who’s they right? They said if I did this, he wouldn’t be a picky eater. Yeah, here we are, yeah.

Rebecca: Yeah, that’s probably the number one thing when I’m working with parents is like taking away that blame and then also adjusting. When we talk about balance, like adjusting realistic expectations for this kid too, because there’s a level of picky eating that is really really normal for that age group. And then there’s also picky eating that can get to an extreme level where it might be interfering with life or with growth patterns and that’s definitely where a little bit more intervention is needed. But my first goal is really to help the parents kind of reduce blame and reduce stress around that meal time, because I know picky eating can make it really stressful to feed a family?

Kayla: Yeah, it can. I know, like for myself, it becomes stressful in well, what do I make, like? What do I cook for dinner that he will eat? Yeah, because he needs to eat. Sometimes my husband will be like, well then, he just doesn’t eat. I’m like, but he has to eat. Yeah, we can’t just not eat him.

Right and you’re trying to balance the needs of all these other people and what they like and dislike too, yeah, so far, the other two are okay with what we’re eating, but it’s most of the time because I’ve made something I know the eight year old will eat, so they get to kind of choose. They have more variety, I feel like, than my eight year old, which I feel bad about.

Rebecca: It’s tough, I mean. One thing I talk with a lot of parents about is trying to make sure that kid has some kind of food that they like at every meal, every snack, Even if it’s just one food on the table that you know they’ll eat. So a lot of the times they need to just start eating, and sometimes if they start eating they’re more likely to continue eating. They’ll also give them that ability to fill up on something while also having a little bit of that exposure to those other foods that maybe they’re not ready to try yet. But you never know when that day is that they will be ready to try it.

Kayla: Yeah, yeah, no, that’s helpful, especially because so my son has always loved McDonald’s and so we’re in a small town and forever we didn’t have a Chick-fil-A. Well, when he was born, chick-fil-a was open and I was so excited because we had never had a Chick-fil-A and I love their nuggets, and so as he was growing up, I would try and take him to Chick-fil-A and he didn’t want anything to do with Chick-fil-A, but I think it was really because of the toy that came with the McDonald’s having me all the time Sure, but yesterday actually.

Yeah, just yesterday he asked Mom why don’t we ever go to Chick-fil-A? And I said well, you totally didn’t like Chick-fil-A so I kind of try not to take you there. But I love their milkshakes. I’m like oh okay, so we can start going to Chick-fil-A a little bit more yeah.

Rebecca: Yeah, these are crazy. Sometimes You’re like I like the idea.

Kayla: That was a reminder for me that his palette is going to change as he gets older and he’s going to be more willing to try things, even if it’s based on something else. That’s there that he likes.

Rebecca: Absolutely, and it can be a little bit of a control thing, in a sense too of control and familiarity, like he’s familiar with McDonald’s, even though you know that Chick-fil-A is really similar to McDonald’s. He doesn’t know that and so it still may feel really scary, or like I’m going to go with what’s comfortable. That sounds scary to be told I need to eat somewhere else. But then when it’s in his control and up to him, it might feel a little bit more approachable.

So, yeah, I think that can play out at the dinner table too, where if a kid is pressured to eat, or even just asked, hey, take one more bite, usually it ends up backfiring right, because then they’re like, oh my gosh, mom or dad really wants me to eat this. I really don’t want to eat it even more because of that. So I think that dynamic of kids independence comes into play a lot too.

Kayla: Yeah, I’m really glad that you brought that up, because I think when we are trying to help our kids to eat, we forget that it’s also about boundaries, and they know their bodies too. So when we try and force them, we’re actually telling them no, your boundaries don’t matter, you need to do what I tell you to. But since we’re so focused on the food, even with the best intentions, we’re teaching our kids these patterns. We don’t want them to keep later on Great.

Rebecca: It can be our own personal relationship with food projected onto our kids. Even with my own daughter, I have to zoom out and think about OK, the long-term goal is that I want her to be able to listen to her hungerfulness cues, listen to her body, be able to have a good relationship with food long-term. And if that means right now that all she wants to eat at dinner is goldfish dipped in ketchup, that’s just what it’s going to be tonight.

Because it’s so easy as parents to get caught in that moment of like oh my gosh, she’s not eating all these other things, she’s not going to get the nutrients she needs. Is this going to affect growth, health, all these other things? And really just zooming out and realizing that is one moment in time. We are focused on a way way bigger long term goal.

Kayla: Yeah, and I think, for, like my son, I have to remind myself of my husband’s habits too, because he’s told me multiple times I would not eat vegetables. He’s like I don’t think I ate a salad until I was an adult, and it was only because my friend’s mom told me I needed to eat the salad. And yeah, he was like I was there visiting and I was helping them with something, and she said, no, you cannot leave this table and tell me to eat the salad, and I didn’t know what else to do, so I just ate it so that we could finally go and do the work we needed to do.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah, I mean, even as a dietitian I was similar. As a kid I was pretty particular. I didn’t eat a lot of vegetables. I think probably similar to your husband. My first salad was either college or as an adult. My husband likes to tell the story.

Kayla: I’m one of our early dates.

Rebecca: He made us a dinner that included a baked potato and for some reason as a kid, I think my parents just didn’t prepare a lot of potatoes, so I didn’t have a ton of exposure to them outside of French fries Loved French fries, but I never had a baked potato. And then first couple dates with this boy, I don’t want to say, oh, I don’t like baked potatoes, yeah, and so I just eat it. I think similar to that situation with your husband. And then I was like, oh, I do like baked potatoes, these are great. So I think there is a lot of that age, what’s normal for the age and what they could potentially grow out of, even if that takes until college or adulthood. Oh, that’s good to know.

Kayla: And so I love that. You said that you looked at the potato and you thought, well, I don’t want to say I don’t like potatoes, because I think that’s what a lot of kids will do. They are telling themselves, well, I don’t like that. When it’s more, I don’t know what that is and I probably am not going to like it, right, yeah, yeah, can you speak a little bit about that and like, yeah, kids like have these fears, or did they say these things when it’s actually it’s not that they don’t like them, but it’s scary to try things.

Rebecca: Absolutely yes, and I I work with both. When I’m working with parents and working with the kids, we do a lot of having to reframe, like, okay, even if something is different, that doesn’t mean it’s bad. I think different does not equal bad. So what can be helpful sometimes is focusing on those other descriptors of the food. Besides, is it good or bad, right? So thinking about, say, with the potato example, like, oh, potato, baked potato is a little bit squishy maybe, or something like that.

Or salty or it’s warm, you know, thinking about all of those different ways we can describe it and just kind of getting rid of the judgment words.

Kayla: Yeah, oh, I like that. Yeah.

And speaking of funny stories, I remember a time I was staying at a friend’s house and I don’t remember how old I was, it was definitely before high school, so I must have been in elementary school and her mom made us asparagus and she wanted us to finish the asparagus. So I remember that I hated it when I tried it.

Rebecca: I love this.

Kayla: I absolutely love asparagus. Now that’s one of, like, my favorite vegetables is asparagus with some Parmesan cheese and lemon. But back then I thought it was the worst thing ever and so I would put some in my mouth and chew it up and then I’d go to the bathroom and spit it out, because I didn’t have a moment. I mean at that point it’s already in my mouth, I still swallow it. But I was like no, I just would go to the bathroom and spit it out. I’m sure she knew what I was doing. Like we’re not that smooth, but I mean technically.

Rebecca: I finished it.

Kayla: It was not on the plate anymore.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah, I like that story too, because I think that speaks a lot to the. You know the idea of like we don’t want to pressure our kids to eat at the table, because if they really don’t want to eat something, they’re not and they’re probably just going to figure out those other solutions to get rid of it. And you know we don’t, we don’t want that.

Kayla: Yeah, what are your thoughts on like making your child finish a plate or those types of things? Yeah, I guess it still goes in line with like pressuring your child to ease you know certain moves, or their entire plate.

Rebecca: Yeah, I’d recommend again kind of similar vein taking off that pressure. Don’t require them to finish their plate or finish certain things. I know, especially with desserts, we often like to have kids finish a certain part of their meal, maybe before they eat a dessert, and what that can do is create unnecessary food rules that just persist throughout life, because if they’re having to finish a plate when they’re not hungry, that’s teaching them not to listen to their body’s cues, and if they’re like having to eat something else before they get their dessert, that’s teaching them that the dessert is is kind of up on this pedestal and we have to do these things we don’t want to do in order to get to it, and so it’s going to make that more of a sought after thing and possibly result in wanting to eat desserts and sweets even more than they normally would have, because it’s kind of in that off limits area.

Kayla: Yeah, yeah, and I was. I had seen something where it was like this is what you prepare for your toddler. This is actually the amount that is okay that they’re eating.

Rebecca: And it was a very big difference.

Kayla: Can you speak on how we perceive how much our children eat versus the reality of like it’s okay if they’re only eating as much?

Rebecca: Yeah, I think that can be a really difficult thing as a parent too, because you’re worried about similar to being worried about nutrients you’re worried about them getting enough and being full. So we kind of shift it into perspective of what an appropriate portion size would be for their age. Typically, as a toddler, it’s only about a couple tablespoons of each food. That would be a very standard portion size.

But even with that, that’s not taking into account how hungry they are at that time. So I think I put it in perspective of myself often again, you know, especially with my toddler, where, yeah, there are some times where I am just starving and I will eat way more than I might on an average day, and there are other times where I’m just not that hungry, for multiple reasons, and might eat a lot less. And our kids are the same way, right Like they’re people too, and so their appetites are going to have those natural fluctuations and they’re going to have some days where they want a lot, other days where they want very little, and there’s really no way for us as parents to know what their body needs. They’re the only ones that know what their body needs at that time.

Kayla: What would you say to someone who was feeling anxious of their kids maybe not eating enough? What would be the best way to help a parent trust that their child knows the food that they need? I don’t know if I phrase that right, or if you have a different way of phrasing that.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah, I think just trust, trust overall that their child really does know their body right.

Yes, yeah, something that’s helpful, helpful to go back to, and it’s one of the things that we look at when we’re trying to evaluate is this picky eating something that is maybe a bigger deal that’s interfering with life or with health?

I look a lot at growth charts from the pediatrician and if kiddo is following growth charts as projected, they’re not having other medical issues that could be nutrition related, and if they’re able to eat in most situations, then typically there’s not a larger problem and we can trust that kid knows their body. The red flags that I would look out for or if growth on the growth curve suddenly falls off or there’s a big change, that can indicate that there’s something up and we may need to help intervene so that kid does get what they need, food wise. Same, if there’s other side effects medically that could be nutrition related, okay. Or if kid starts having trouble eating in a bunch of situations, like if meal times are super stressful, if they start refusing to eat outside of the house or eat at school or are unable to eat something off of a very standard restaurant menu, those might be red flags.

Kayla: Okay, I think that’s really helpful knowing some of those red flags, and then they sound like it is more on the extreme side. Yeah, you had mentioned earlier that there were some typical picky eating at certain ages. Can you speak a little bit more about that?

Rebecca: Yeah, so picky eating. Typically it’s normal for around one or two, when we enter the toddler age, for picky eating to emerge a little bit and kids will go on what we call food jogs where if you’re a parent, I’m sure you’re familiar with them where kids will just want to eat one thing all the time, okay, and then all of a sudden they may drop that and decide they want to eat something else all of the time. Those food jogs are really normal, especially in toddlers and school age kids. There tends to be preferences among kids for foods that have consistent textures and flavors.

Rebecca: Okay, I kind of think about it. Like you know, if you think about a, either, say, fast food like a McDonald’s chicken nugget, or a packaged good like a cracker the cracker or the McDonald’s nugget, like they’re going to have a pretty consistent texture, flavor, taste, presentation every single time, yeah, I’m surprised it’s there.

Rebecca: Yeah, exactly, whereas you know, if you go grab produce, you grab some blueberries. They can vary so widely for so many reasons. You know, even when blueberries are in season you may happen to pick up an unlucky carton. Isn’t very good, right, like? Textures can be squishy or it could be firm, sometimes they’re sweet, Sometimes they’re tart, there’s a variety of sizes, all sorts of things. So there’s not consistency, but there’s consistency in those packaged goods and some of those fast food or restaurant foods. Yeah, and so there’s, I think, going back to that comfort or familiarity. There’s a lot of that there for kids, because they know exactly what to expect every time. They know, okay, I’m most likely going to like this every time I have it, whereas, oh, the last time I had blueberries they were not really good, so they might not be good this time.

Kayla: Wow, that makes so much sense and I can’t believe I didn’t think about that before, because that is so true. The consistency piece and I was confused. I had heard of the food jack. I had heard of that and I noticed it with my first son. For sure he loved blueberries. Like he ate them all the time, like that’s all he wanted. He would eat them by the pie. And I was like, oh my God, I don’t know if this is healthy, but we’ll go with it and then all of a sudden, just like stopped, he didn’t like blueberries anymore.

So that had happened when he was younger and I didn’t think anything of it at that time because he was so little.

Well, recently, that’s because my son loved ranch dressing but, we buy hidden valley ranch dressing, like that’s the one we have at the house. And within last month or two they had a pizza sale at school and I guess they have ranch. Because he came home and was like mom, I had a ranch and I spit it out Like what. He goes, yeah, ranch is not good. I said, but you love ranch dressing? He goes nope, because I had it at school and I spit it out and I couldn’t think that’s so weird and he wouldn’t try it anymore. And I said, bud, you do like this ranch dressing. And he goes no, because I had it at school and I spit it out. And so this makes things so clear. He probably had some different brand ranch dressing. That just wasn’t good to him.

So now he’s afraid to try the usual ranch dressing that was consistent for him.

Rebecca: Yeah, totally, and I think you know kids also, like their palates, aren’t quite as developed as adults, so I think we also have to have different expectations of what’s realistic for them. To just kind of going back to your question about, like what happens I might be saying the words wrong but why picky eating develops or what might be useful for kids, I think you know there’s. There’s just a difference in palette between kids and adults, to where kids are going to be more likely to be drawn towards sweeter flavors, whereas as adults our palate develops and we’re able to tolerate some of those more bitter flavors, and so it’s it’s really normal for kids not to really like a lot of vegetables and maybe be drawn to fruits more.

Kayla: Okay, yeah.

Rebecca: I know that’s a big concern of parents. A lot is like, oh my gosh, they’re not eating vegetables. And really if they’re eating fruits whether it’s fresh fruit, frozen, canned, dried, freeze, dried juice they are getting very similar nutrients, if not the same as what they would be getting in vegetables. So we can kind of think about produce as a whole for kids. It’s just going to be usually more realistic for them to eat fruits because they’re drawn to that and vegetables may come later as the palette develops.

Kayla: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they’re. I mean because, even thinking about some foods that I used to like as a kid and then I’ll have like a craving for it, like, oh, I remember this tasted like this. But then I go and open it and try and eat it and I’m like this is not how I remember it tasting. I remember this thing being so good, yeah, and I was an adult. I’m like, oh, this is this has like no flavor. Yes, yeah, totally yeah, I think it was. I think it was SpaghettiOs. One time, like a long time ago, that I was like, oh, spaghettios sound so good. Yeah, they were not good as adults.

Rebecca: Right, because you you probably have. You’ve had so many other taste experiences since. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn’t taste the same.

Kayla: But for kids it’s more bland that flavor is going to be consistent to them, right. And so they might like it, because it’s not something that’s going to change.

Rebecca: Exactly.

Kayla: Is there any big mistakes that you see parents doing that when it comes to feeding their kids that you see often, or maybe not a mistake, but the biggest concern.

Rebecca: Yeah, I think there’s a lot of potential answers to that question. One of the big things that, understandably, is really difficult these days, just because we’re so busy and schedules are all over the place. One of the big things is just trying to have some kind of a family meal at some point throughout the week. That’s really important for helping kids to develop into regular eaters, because that means they can watch you as a model and they might be getting that exposure to other foods that they wouldn’t normally eat. If it’s a family meal and they may not eat everything on the table, I still think about them sitting at the table with that food as still a form of an exposure to that food, because they’re looking at it, they’re smelling it, they’re seeing others eat it. Yeah, Right.

So I know eating together is really really tough for families and I think when we pull back to balance in what’s realistic, it’s not realistic for most families I know, definitely not for my family not realistic for us to eat as a family every single night, and I think there’s a lot of pressure on all or nothing thinking of okay, well, if we do it, we have to do it every night, or if we can’t do it every night, we’re just not going to worry about it. Yeah, it’s really helpful to figure out if there is something that works for your family having that opportunity, at least maybe a couple times a week, to eat altogether or eat even if it’s just like one parent with kid. Just give that time that allows for the exposure, allows for the modeling of eating and modeling of normalized eating, and then also gives good time for connection too.

Kayla: Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up as like the all or nothing thinking, because I know some moms on here might be thinking like, oh, if I can’t do it, then what’s the point? But if you at least try and schedule at least maybe one so week, it’s more likely to happen than if you just threw in the towel and thought, well, it’s never going to happen, what’s the point?

Rebecca: Yeah.

Kayla: Yeah.

Rebecca: I mean, I know for my family it looks pretty different week to week, just depending on what schedules look like. And there’s often calling in support systems like having grandma or grandpa come and maybe they’re doing dinner with the toddler one night, that they’re also doing pickup from take care and it may be me eating breakfast with her, but then maybe it’s my husband doing dinner or we’re having a family meal of all of us, maybe once during the week. More on the weekends, every family is going to look different and that’s okay. It’s more. Just trying to get a little bit in there is going to be better than nothing at all.

Kayla: Yeah, yeah, I mean because we struggle with that sometimes too, especially when we’re trying to do no screens at the table or just no screens during dinner time. But then sometimes we’re like we just want to have a conversation by ourselves. So sure you can go to the living room today. Like, yes, you can postpone while you’re eating today, because while you’re down you want to have a conversation.

Rebecca: Right, like it’s going to look different all the time, and that’s okay yeah.

Kayla: And it doesn’t make us bad parents, it’s just sometimes you don’t have capacity.

Rebecca: Yes, and I think that’s like you know. That’s so much of the figuring out what’s realistic for balance, because it’s not. I mean, like you said at the beginning of the podcast, there’s a lot of moms that think they need to give their all to all these other parts in the family and you need to maintain your own mental health too, and I think that’s a big part of it is like if you’re sacrificing your mental health to do these family meals, then maybe that’s not making sense for your family right now.

Kayla: Yeah, I agree, but thank you so much, rebecca, for coming on. All of this is really helpful information.

But if there’s a family that’s listening or a mom that’s listening and is struggling with a picky eater and they want to work with you, what’s the best way to get in contact with you to try and set something up?

Rebecca: Yeah, our website, our practice, is called Dallas Nutritional Counseling. They can go to our website that’s DallasNutritionalCounselingcom and can schedule straight from the website or call the phone number and get in touch with the practice and I’m happy to talk with anyone further if they have questions.

Kayla: Awesome. And then I will put all that information in the show notes, so if you’re driving, don’t try and write this down. They’ll be in the show notes for you to look back on. And thank you so much again, rebecca, for taking the time to meet with us and talk about this, because I don’t think there’s enough support, at least not that I’ve seen in having these conversations. I mean, I’m sure there’s other places, but it can feel isolating, like you’re the only one who’s struggling with a picky eater.

Rebecca: Yeah, Definitely yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. I enjoyed it.

Kayla: I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.

Rebecca: Thank you, you too.